Category talk:Defensible
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Maybe items in this category must actually provide cite links so they are actually easily defended.
Regarding the defensibility of defensible:
- There is a little edit war about whether body or defensible are containers for each other. Notice that this uses the false container metaphor,
- Valid, but, all categories have that problem of pretending to be containers. As long as the categories don't pretend to be epistemic but are just convenient standard tags that enable a known process, that's less of a problem. See Talk:Tag:namespace.
- also that it attempts to impose a hierarchy of categorisation, that is not found either in nature or in the human mind.
- It's found in human social organizations only. There is for instance a distinction between natural science and human science. In the former, there are different ethical and epistemic constraints than in the latter. You can't get a group of humans to behave as similarly as a bunch of atoms or even cockroaches, and you aren't allowed to manipulate or dispose of the humans the same way you can the atoms or cockroaches. So these are legitimate reasons to differentiate two means by which defensibility arguments are constructed. We are not Mengele, so we will not be conducting the kind of repeatable experiments on hypothermia than he did, on humans - accordingly we must reject the kind of demands Mengele would make to show us a tightly-controlled experiment doing horrid things to twins, for instance. Any such refusal implies dividing the sciences: the scientific method now distincted! No one says the categories are found in nature or in the mind, but they are definitely found in human organizing. Also the distinction between the body and what isn't the body but is still part of a living natural ecosystem is rather important to most people, despite it being an approximation ("skin as false barrier" it's sometimes called). The distinction between reactive, reflective and reflexive behaviour is observed in organizations too, though it's less clear to non-experts. When you start to try to encourage more reflexive behaviour - five levels of intranet you will discover that you need certain methods, certain sequences of methods or "ladders". These are only found in highly organized trained human minds that know some natural languages, programming languages,mathematics, ergonomics, industrial psychology, management science and other abstractions. If you're using the Internet, you're already using all those abstractions, so the key is to find those which add as little additional abstraction as possible. If you want to abandon the Internet, fine, but then this is not really the venue to debate that, unless you have a practical way to devolve it to something a lot less silicon-based.
- You can argue tag:infra a bit, but not much. A boot image is not a web service, period.
- The ugly stuff gets tag:ultra or tag:ultra-reflexive, not because it's understood, but because it isn't. Subcategories of either are based on observed human organizing behaviour. Arguments for ultra-reflexive distinctions like six styles of capital are new (but not less defensible) and apply only to economics, they are treated as a very fine distinction that applies only to very abstract distinctions. If we assume that all creatures can be irritated, they are all reactive, but only those with language capacity can be reflective (and thus can also be trolled), and only those with reasoning capacity can be reflexive (and thus can be Lowest Troll and decisively end debates), then only those with wisdom could be ultra-reflexive enough to care about things like styles of capital.
- Confused people think that humans categorise hierarchically, but they should read Women, fire and dangerous things by Lakoff & Johnson.
- Humans don't, systems do. The category scheme applicable to systems design is the twelve levers. We are designing systems here, not humans. The categories are exactly and only those that are required to keep these levers lubricated: to keep straight the types of things that require very different treatments when each lever is applied.
- There should be no general category scheme applying to the content, only to the design process for organizational protocol, intranets, and the underlying technologies like wiki protocol.
OK, the way all the above are now handled is:
- If it's something that is inherent in the body, it goes in category:body and thus is defensible say from the perspective of medical experts and biology at some level
- If it's otherwise something that's natural, it goes in category:natural to be more clearly related to natural capital and defended by various natural sciences
- If the defense of some idea is more social or organizationally derived, then it makes sense to list the organization(s) that make the assertion, thus the ISO and various UN agencies become each their own subcategory. Other than the UN nesting, it's probably not a good plan to subdivide say religious authorities from say FSF, as who can tell FSF from a religion? Not our trolls
- Other than these appeals to authority, there can be appeals to some contract, interpreting which is an entirely different form of adversarial process, so it gets its own category.
Note that the above are operational distinctions only: the type of defense that's made, either an appeal to authority (the organizations) or to empirical testing (the category:body and category:natural, cognizant of the fact that there are quite different limits to the experimentation that ethical trolls can do on either).
Would be helpful to hash this out now, because if it works, it's a major breakthrough in evidence/source/authority documentation, and should be spread to other wikis.
